Israeli president faces rape charge

[jafar00]

Moshe Katsav, Israel's president, could be indicted on charges of rape and abuse of power, the attorney general has said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F...8BBBA6.htm

[Lad]

I couldn't help smiling as I read that. Not at the content, but you Jafar. If he has been guilty of those things he should be locked away end of story and NEVER allowed in government. I'm of the opinion rapists should be castrated. It isn't a legal thing in Israel. It is illegal and he faces criminal charges; what is the problem?

I may point out though that in ALL proper Islamic countries there are a high proportion of married women are treated no better than sex slaves, baby producers and in a few; work horses. One dirty man in Israel, (providing he is guilty) should not be raised above a general practice in many other parts of the world. As a further point in some Islamic countries the practice of marrying girls off before puberty is nothing short of child abuse and rape.

Any thoughts on this which is continually happening every second of the day, LEGALLY, in these countries?

[jafar00]

Lad Wrote:I couldn't help smiling as I read that. Not at the content, but you Jafar. If he has been guilty of those things he should be locked away end of story and NEVER allowed in government. I'm of the opinion rapists should be castrated. It isn't a legal thing in Israel. It is illegal and he faces criminal charges; what is the problem?

I knew you would smile. It's because he is the President of the only Middle East country with a Nuclear arsenal and this is the kind of leadership they have.

Lad Wrote:I may point out though that in ALL proper Islamic countries there are a high proportion of married women are treated no better than sex slaves, baby producers and in a few; work horses.

You make it sound like abuse of marriage is a standard Islamic practise. I can tell you it's not. My wife likes to cook. She joins my neighbour's wife and her mother cooking all sorts of tasty stuff. She likes to clean around the house and I also help in that regard, not just because I want to keep a harmonious household, but because it is also my responsibility to help and care for my wife and family.

Lad Wrote:One dirty man in Israel, (providing he is guilty) should not be raised above a general practice in many other parts of the world. As a further point in some Islamic countries the practice of marrying girls off before puberty is nothing short of child abuse and rape.

I don't want to mention religion but... It is against Islamic Law to marry before puberty so what you say is just a typical Islamophobe reaction. It's Myth. If it is happening then yes it is child abuse and also carries a heavy penalty in the Shariah.

Lad Wrote:Any thoughts on this which is continually happening every second of the day, LEGALLY, in these countries?

The US state of New Hampshire's minimum marriage age is 13 years old for females and 14 years old for males. In most of the world it varies between 13 and 22.
Traditionally, even in Europe the age has been as young as the onset Puberty which can be as young as 9 years old. It was legally done at that age many years ago. It's only recently that the age has been raised to 16-18 in many countries.

Anyway, the debate isn't the legal age of marriage in the world. It is the fact that the most agressive, nuclear armed regime in the Middle East also happens to have an unstable, religious extremist, and highly corrupt leadership. Does that not make them a danger to the world?

[Lad]

jafar00 Wrote:I knew you would smile. It's because he is the President of the only Middle East country with a Nuclear arsenal and this is the kind of leadership they have.

So we're smiling together. That's a good thing.

jafar00 Wrote:You make it sound like abuse of marriage is a standard Islamic practise. I can tell you it's not. My wife likes to cook. She joins my neighbour's wife and her mother cooking all sorts of tasty stuff. She likes to clean around the house and I also help in that regard, not just because I want to keep a harmonious household, but because it is also my responsibility to help and care for my wife and family.

I am not commenting on Islam. This forum does not discuss religeon. I am talking about the laws of some countries countries and their politics. I am not referring to Islam; I never doubted you were not a good husband anymore than hundreds of of millions of other muslims. Marriage abuse and rape happens a lot in every country (the statistics are appalling), but I was merely pointing out that because of such and such laws and customs is happens more in other countries and unlike Israel there is often not the same justice.

jafar00 Wrote:I don't want to mention religion but... It is against Islamic Law to marry before puberty so what you say is just a typical Islamophobe reaction. It's Myth. If it is happening then yes it is child abuse and also carries a heavy penalty in the Shariah.

NO religion here, please!: I'm talking about laws in Pakistan, Sudan etc not Islamic laws. sign0092:

jafar00 Wrote:Anyway, the debate isn't the legal age of marriage in the world. It is the fact that the most agressive, nuclear armed regime in the Middle East also happens to have an unstable, religious extremist, and highly corrupt leadership. Does that not make them a danger to the world?

Politics is always corrupt. Every leader in every country is probably corrupt to a greater or lesser degree. I would suggest that Israel would only do what the US would allow them to do. If they did anything more they could lose this.


P.S Sorry if I appeared to attack anything to do with Islam. I did not as no religion is allowed here. The reason I mentioned it was because I expected that this rape charge to be more in line with a marital rape case, rather than a predatory rapist. Perhaps it was an unnecessary detour and I think I may have even crept to the very edge of our religious rule myself in that paragraph up there. So I'll leave it there.

[GM - Romulus111VADT]

Jafar, I need a little guidance on an issue. Americans have a habit of using generalization when talking about race, creed, color, ethnic groups and religious groups. Example- I live in the south east US, so I'm referred to as a southerner. Or someone from New Hampshire is typically called a New Englander. Now when we are discussing people we will say for example- An African American, and I've even heard the term "White Northerner" which I thought was rather stupid, but hey, they were discussing a relative. Or we will speak of Latinos, Mexicans, Irish American, German American, Muslim American and the list goes on and on.

When we speak of a religious group, we will say someone is Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or Baptist (Southern Baptist). We mean nothing by these categories. It is just they way we speak. Of course we have our derogatory names as any country will for the less savory members of our society.

Now for an example - With little people, most tend to refer to them as "Midgets". No insult is intended, it's just an old term that people are use to, but it is a highly derogatory to the little people. They prefer the term, "Dwarf" or "Short stature". Also like with mentally challenged people, the term "Retarded" is extremely derogatory and they prefer the term, "mentally challenged".

I have learned these things in life by either observing or making the mistake of using a term and being corrected. Most people realize that it is just due to ignorance and not done as an insult. It is usually pretty easy to tell which way it was meant.

So my question to you is- As a Muslim, what is your preferred way to have Muslim peoples referred to in a conversation? Is Islamic appropriate? Or should the specific country in question be used, like Iraqi, Lebanese, Arabic, etc?

I mean no insult, I'm just attempting to learn the proper respectful way to refer to Muslims.

[matt]

Ben you were the one who brought up the word Islamic in the first post. The next post's below were just quoting you. I know it's tempting but let's try and leave that for another forum please.

Quote:P.S Sorry if I appeared to attack anything to do with Islam. I did not as no religion is allowed here. The reason I mentioned it was because I expected that this rape charge to be more in line with a marital rape case, rather than a predatory rapist. Perhaps it was an unnecessary detour and I think I may have even crept to the very edge of our religious rule myself in that paragraph up there. So I'll leave it there. Icon_wink

Least ya know


Anything for me to say on this topic? I can't think of anything. Comparing other nations is a entirely different issue. This guy faces a charge and if found guilty he will face the consequences.

Quote:It is the fact that the most agressive, nuclear armed regime in the Middle East also happens to have an unstable, religious extremist, and highly corrupt leadership.

Jafar, The government can't be highly corrupt. He would never have seen a day in the docks otherwise

I am highly suspicious of Israel however..

[Lad]

I know I used the word. Lass gave me a beating for it. I read it through before and decided it was ok. I re-read it and thought about the rules and I thought it was still within the boundary. Religion isn't discussed, but perhaps the post could have done better without any inferrance of religion. I hate tripping up on my own rules, worse still for being a hypocrite. I would believe it was within the rules, but I think perhaps the best way is to avoid mentioning the word where possible and I could have avoided it there.

Is there any more news on that wall Israel were building? It hasn't been in the news for a long time now.

[jafar00]

Romulus111VADT Wrote:So my question to you is- As a Muslim, what is your preferred way to have Muslim peoples referred to in a conversation? Is Islamic appropriate? Or should the specific country in question be used, like Iraqi, Lebanese, Arabic, etc?

I mean no insult, I'm just attempting to learn the proper respectful way to refer to Muslims.

Hi Romulus

Call us Muslims when referring to us collectively (1.5 billion spread out across the globe). Refer to specific countries when talking about them.

Islamic is appropriate when describing something pertaining to the religion of Islam. Such as, the Islamic holiday of Eid Al-Adha or saying someone wears Islamic clothes.

Why do you ask? Did you have a problem before?

[jafar00]

Lad Wrote:P.S Sorry if I appeared to attack anything to do with Islam. I did not as no religion is allowed here. The reason I mentioned it was because I expected that this rape charge to be more in line with a marital rape case, rather than a predatory rapist. Perhaps it was an unnecessary detour and I think I may have even crept to the very edge of our religious rule myself in that paragraph up there. So I'll leave it there.

You did mention "Islamic countries" and the practises of "Islamic countries" as a generalisation that it is what "they" do in those countries. While I try not to break the no religion law, I cannot stay silent when someone says something clearly wrong about Islam although I try to explain with as little religion as possible.
Anyway. Yes he is being charged as a predatory rapist abusing his standing and power to have his way with women.

[GM - Romulus111VADT]

jafar00 Wrote:

Romulus111VADT Wrote:So my question to you is- As a Muslim, what is your preferred way to have Muslim peoples referred to in a conversation? Is Islamic appropriate? Or should the specific country in question be used, like Iraqi, Lebanese, Arabic, etc?

I mean no insult, I'm just attempting to learn the proper respectful way to refer to Muslims.

Hi Romulus

Call us Muslims when referring to us collectively (1.5 billion spread out across the globe). Refer to specific countries when talking about them.

Islamic is appropriate when describing something pertaining to the religion of Islam. Such as, the Islamic holiday of Eid Al-Adha or saying someone wears Islamic clothes.

Why do you ask? Did you have a problem before?

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

No, I've never had a problem per say. But I wanted to make sure I wasn't just being tolerate because I'm stupid...lol. That and a few times I think I came across wrong in my posts and upset you. That wasn't my intention, but it seems that I was misunderstood. I have known very few Muslims unfortunately. But the ones I have had the pleasure of meeting were very fine people.

I got to thinking about it and was wondering if they may have let an unintended insult pass because they understood that I didn't know any better. I tried to let them know that if I did say something wrong to please let me know. I'm not so pig headed as to not apologize when I'm wrong. But the only way I can learn is to be corrected or ask.